1. Confirmation of Minutes
To consider the confirmation and signing of the Minutes of the Ordinary Meeting held on 21st November 2016.
‘BallincolligCarrigaline MD Minutes 21.11.16.pdf’
Cllr D’Alton: Motion 3 from last meeting – meant that a programme for slip cleaning would be drawn up in our Municipal District. The background to this is that the €50,000 allocated to our Municipal District in Budget 2017 for coastal works was clarified as also including for slip cleaning.
Also in AOB – my comments on the table tennis nets are correctly noted. But I also commented that the promised reinforcing under the table tennis nets has still not been put in place.
Minutes were proposed and seconded.
Matters arising:
Cllr D’Alton: We spoke about the Town and Village Renewal Fund at the last meeting. Is concerned because the funding was to have been spent and the project completed by year end. But we have had no update on the funding at all.
Anne: In an ideal world they wanted the money spent by December. But the closing date for applications was September and the projects weren’t confirmed until well into October. So the Department has said that the year-end deadline was insofar as possible. We have flexibility.
Cllr D’Alton: Will it be necessary to draw down the funding at least before year end, even if the projects aren’t complete.
Anne: We have the money!
Cllr D’Alton: We spoke of the consultation on the Casual trading bye-laws at the last meeting. The revised maps for our Municipal District have not been issued and legal advice was to have been sought on how to deal with the new maps in the consultation. Have we an update on this?
MDO: No. This is being run from West Cork. Will seek an update.
Cllr D’Alton: Concerned that the consultation will close on 31st December and we won’t have another Municipal Dsitrict meeting until after that. This is especially relevant to us because it is our maps that have been omitted. Asks that the update would be circulated to all Members as soon as possible.
Cllr McGrath: Update on Maryborough Ridge? The Area Engineer was to have got in touch with the NNRDO?
MDO: She did and believes a reply was issued but not circulated. Will circulate.
2. Consideration of Reports and Recommendations
(a) Part VIII Planning report N27 Airport Roundabout & N28 Shanbally Roundabout.
‘Part 8 Planning Report N27 Airport Roundabout & N28 Shanbally Roundabout.pdf’-2
A presentation on these proposals was given previously.
Proposed and seconded. They will now go to full Council for approval.
(b) Report on the proposal to Take In Charge roads and services in (i) Daneswood, Douglas and (ii) The Orchard, Monkstown
MDO: Planning has been in touch to say that an issue has arisen in The Orchards. They ask that the taking in charge of The Orchards would not be dealt with at this meeting. So only Daneswood is being considered at this meeting.
The taking in charge of Daneswood is proposed and seconded.
(c) Proposed Part VIII for upgrade works to Shannonpark Roundabout.
POD on proposal:
- There are existing congestion problems at the Shannonpark roundabout. Various proposals have come to us in the past and have not been accepted. Arups was asked to consider all possible options for its upgrade. They have given us 8 options. They have also given us recommendations. The original proposal was for signalisation and it is seen still as the best technical solution.
- The option that is being put forward now is Option 3A in the report. It comprises a three-lane approach from Ringaskiddy plus a north – east sliproad on the north east side. This arrangement gives additional capacity to the roundabout and should improve the queuing and pm delay in particular. Council intends to commence the Part 8 process for this upgrade with our agreement.
- This is a national route so the Part 8 work would be done by the Cork Roads Design Office.
Cllr McGrath: Welcomes this. Never thought traffic lights would work but this is a welcome proposal.
Cllr D’Alton: Also welcomes it. Concerned that the third lane on the Ringaskiddy arm of the roundabout doesn’t start back far enough. Current queues stretch back to east of the Fernhill junction during the pm peak.
POD: The results of the simulation are showing that queuing will be significantly reduced. We have a constraint in that there is an entrance into a private property. The main reason for the long queues is that there is no opportunity to get out. The matter will be kept under review when the work is done. If we need to make further improvements afterwards, the various options can be examined.
Cllr D’Alton: Is this upgrade sufficiently adequate to allow the Shannonpark housing development to proceed?
POD: This improvement allows for the second phase of development of Shannonpark. The final phase requires some major alteration which is likely to be the motorway. Coming out on the Rock Road is going to need more than is there at present. But it will take us from Phase 1 to Phase 2.
(d) Lands at Castletreasure.
MDO: Since the leasing of land at Castletreasure to the Corinthians, the Douglas Rugby Club has asked for access. The club is in discussion with the residents. They have been in contact with the planning department to make sure there is no hitch with respect to developing two full size pitches, car parking, etc. If things progress successfully, it will be brought back to the Municipal District again. This update is for information purposes.
Cllr Forde (FG): We will monitor this and will see how it goes. It is great that some sporting organisations get land. Notes though that others are left without it.
Cllr McGrath (FF): This land is sitting there and it would be great if it could be used. Welcomes engagement with the residents; it will be dependent on them.
Cllr Jeffers (SF): Understands this is the last of the lands available here? Would this stop other clubs wanting to join with Douglas Rugby Club?
MDO: It would be leased in entirety to Douglas Rugby Club. There would be no additional lands left – they will use it all. If any other club were to use it there would be an issue with the residents. A single club solution is the best solution from the residents’ perspective.
Cllr Forde: Some lands are zoned for recreation and amenity in the Local Area Plan that will never come on stream. We need to be careful of this.
Cllr Harris: Is there any land zoned for housing there?
MDO: No. It is adjacent to Green Valley. Some building is still going on there. (To Cllr Jeffers) If we lease the land for the sole use of Douglas Rugby Club, no other club could use it. In developing the pitches, they will have to cut and fill the land. By the time it is done, there will not be room for anything else.
3. Correspondence
Correspondence re Extension of Public Consultation Period in relation to the 8 Municipal District Draft Local Area Plans.
MDO: The Planning Policy Unit asked that we would bring this to the attention of all members.
4. To consider the following Notices of Motion:
Responses to all motions detailed in a single report here:
Response to all motions, 19-12-2016
Response to O’Donnabhain’s motions, 19-12-2016
Cllr D O’Donnabhain
1. “That this Municipal District be furnished with a Report on the Council’s policy of issuing litter fines to businesses, the number of such fines to businesses issued since June 2014, and the geographic areas where the fines arose from.”
Cllr O’Donnabhain: This came up in respect of a specific situation with one of the businesses on one of the main streets in Ballincollig. There was false information put out there that the business had been notified not to erect signage. It was not true that the business had been thus notified. In Mallow, Clonakilty and Bandon, there are similar signs on the run into towns and nobody is taken to task about these. The ones in question in Ballincollig were small and were just for a promotional weekend. Circus signs are given a by by the local office because they are not subject to any fines. The business on the main street pays its rates, donates to Tidy Towns and is part of the business association. But it is being fined while the other crowd coming in gets away scot free. Much larger and more offensive signs in other places are not pulled up.
MDO: Knows the signs being referred to. The property owner was advised not to erect signage like this again. The Environment Department (George Salter) said he had been advised not to do it on a previous occasion and had told him that if he did, he would be fined. But he did it again. We can’t comment in relation to other municipal districts. We have tried to chase after circuses. We have isseud fines to them. Some can be difficult. They change their name on a regular basis. We did pin down one on one occasion. So we don’t give them a by.
Cllr Canty: Don will tell sporting organisations where to put the signs. Not by a roundabout, etc. There used to be signs being put out by the businesses but the blind association and Enable Ireland, etc. asked that they be removed in case they fell down on people. Then the supermarkets started putting down little signs themselves. Don got sick of them and asked a litter warden to go to every business on the main street and say no more signs on the footpath. It got out of hand. But yes, circuses are a problem.
Cllr O’Donnabhain: Why are the circus signs not taken down immediately? The signs erected by the business were taken down imediately. In other towns, businesses are given a by. There are much larger signs going into Carrigaline put out by businesses that are being ignored.
MDO: It is factually incorrect to say that one business was being singled out. Another was the business with the barber sign. Ballincollig is different in that we have our own traffic/litter warden. There is none in Carrigaline and you are dependent on the resources of the Environment Department. They have engaged a couple of litter wardens recently so they will be looking at this issue. They are trying to develop a policy in relation to signage. Doesn’t think people have an issue with signage for events. Major bugbear is that those signs are not removed after the event has taken place. The Environment Department is developing a countywide policy in relation to signage. Will ask the Environment Department for a report for the next meeting.
Cllr O’Donnabhain: Would like that. If these circuses are so hard to come by, why would their posters not be taken down immediately?
MDO: Some are glued on. Also if the area office spends time on taking down circus posters, other work won’t be done.
Cllr Forde: This is a huge issue. It is taking money out of the area office to do real work. A planning was given for a shopping centre in Douglas. If you pass it, every space that was meant to be a window is now an advertising hoarding. So Planning needs to be brought into this. It is too ad hoc and is going to have to be fair to everyone. We want to encourage businesses, but otherwise the environment of our centres is going to get out of hand.
Cllr Harris: Agrees. Notices a couple of neon signs appearing outside shops. This is a worry.
Cllr Canty: We had the auctioneers associaiton at an area roads meeting years ago.
Cllr Forde: If planning gives permission which is meant to be aesthetically pleasing, it shouldn’t be used as an advertising hoarding.
MDO: But is putting advertising signage in a window a breach of planning?
Cllr Forde: That’s what I mean. We need planning not be woolly.
2. “That this Municipal District seeks the painting of a disabled parking space outside the post office in Ballincollig.”
Cllr O’Donnabhain: The post office is the only safe facility in the town where people can collect their social welfare. There is a parking bay close to the post office. Would like one space within that bay as a disabled space.
This will be looked at.
Cllr M D’Alton
1. “That mindful of the proximity of the former IFI plant at Marino Point to Passage West, the eyesore that currently is the derelict former IFI plant from the town of Passage West and the conditions attached to the grant of planning for the fertiliser factory in 1974 that Cork County Council would outline:
- whether the former IFI factory is on the derelict sites list and if not, why not
- whether the bond agreed between NET and Cork County Council in February 1976 will be used to remove all redundant or obsolete structures and infrastructure on the former IFI site and, if not
- whether Cork County Council will require the liquidator responsible for the site to remove all redundant or obsolete structures and infrastructure on the former IFI site and, if not
- whether Cork County Council would require any future purchaser of the former IFI site to remove all redundant or obsolete structures and infrastructure on the site before any future development takes place.”
Response to D’Alton’s motions, 19-12-2016
Cllr D’Alton: Marino Point is 500 metres from Passage West at its closest point. To put it in perspective, it is 5.8 km from Cobh. Before the fertiliser factory was developed, the area was evaluated as being of high amenity value. It was compared to parkland, with Marino House and grounds in an idyllic setting in what was compared to a parkland of mature beech, oak, horse chestnut and sycamore trees. When the planning application came before Cork County Council, the recommendation from the senior planner at the time was that because of this amenity value, permission should not be granted for the fertiliser factory. But it was indeed granted by the Minister in 1975.
Condition 34 clarified that the developer and owner of the site should furnish a bond or other security measures before the development commenced. This referred to the taking down and removal of the plant, equipment and installation if the plant ceased to function. The site would have to be reinstated to agricultural, rural or other uses agreed with planning authority.
On February 13 1976, N.E.T. entered into a Bond with Cork County Council with some £500,000 being put aside for the Council to take down and remove all plant equipment and installations connected or formed part of the plant in the event that the ammonia and urea complex ceased to function in the opinion of the council.
But it is still there and the factory has long since ceased to operate. The environmental liability on the site has been discharged and the EPA is happy. But as part of that discharge of environmental liabilities, the cladding from the buildings was removed. It contained asbestos. So now the facility looks more derelict than ever before. And the people of Passage West are looking at it. Wants the Council to confirm that these structures will be removed. That they will commit to their commitment of many years ago.
Cllr McGrath: Supports the spirit the motion. Very stark closeness to Passage West. Supports the points made in terms of the condition of the site. If a sale is agreed, this is something we need to monitor closely. Should also monitor closely if the Port of Cork development goes ahead. We need to be mindful of this.
Cllr Murphy (SF): Supports. Had a motion to full Council about this. The state of the place is the thing. When enquired from the environment whether the jetty was safe, was told everything was in order.
Cllr Canty: This issue has come through the Council in the last 10-12 years.
MDO: We can refer this again to the Cobh Municipal District and ask the Planning about the bond. In Cobh, they are conscious that the site is for sale and the best way to have it cleaned up is that it is sold. They are slow to do something that would impede a potential sale.
Cllr D’Alton: Understands the Cobh Municipal District’s approach. But we don’t know how long a sale may take. The reality is that the Council was given a bond to clean up the site and the site has not been cleaned up. So wants to see a commitment of some form or other.
MDO: We need to be careful of our wording. The motion is essentially asking for preconditions of planning and we can’t do this.
Cllr D’Alton: Fair enough, but somehow wants to see commitment to the Council’s commitment. Asks that we keep in touch with the Cobh Municipal District about this.
MDO will contact the Director of Services, Planning again. Will state the concern of the Municipal District.
Cllr Forde: Would like to support the principle of the motion. There are proposals and solutions for dealing with what needs to be disposed of there and very creative solutions. There are big plans down the line. We can’t just ignore things because they went wrong 40 years ago. Has an issue with conditions that haven’t been met in planning. Is currently assessing the number of planning conditions that haven’t been met. These are very costly to Cork County Council. Knows 2 big planning permissions that haven’t fulfilled all of their conditions.
Ann: Will report back to a future Municipal District. Will say to the Planning Director of Services that these points have been agreed by the Members. Will make it clear that these are our concerns and this is what we’re looking for.
2. “That Cork County Council would investigate the feasibility of making a continuous footpath on Church Hill connecting the existing footpath beyond Bloomingdale to the footpath at the bottom of Avondale. This would allow children living west of the Maulbaun junction to walk to school in safety.”
Cllr D’Alton: Is happy with the report and would be pleased with an investigation into the feasibility of a footpath here. Asks the support of the Members for same.
Cllr McGrath: Supports. This has been brought up as an issue before.
3. “ Haulbowline Island has had a long and intimate relationship with Ringaskiddy. It is accessible by land only from the Ballincollig-Carrigaline Municipal District. The former primary school on Haulbowline Island amalgamated with the primary school in Ringaskiddy to form the Ringaskiddy Lower Harbour National School. The navy based on Haulbowline Island has an intimate relationship with the National Maritime College at Ringaskiddy. The proposed new amenity area to replace previous public access to port lands at Ringaskiddy is at Paddy’s Point, merely 200 metres from Rocky Island. In the light of this historical and current relationship, that the Planning Policy Unit of Cork County Council would explain why Haulbowline and Rocky Islands are considered to be part of the Cobh Municipal District rather than part of the Ballincollig-Carrigaline Municipal District.”
Cllr D’Alton: Notes the report provided and thanks for it. Had believed until only recently that Rocky and Haulbowline Islands were part of the Ballincollig-Carrigaline Municipal District. Seems crazy that they are not. Acknowledges that the Planning Policy Unit commits to mentioning the special relationship between Ringaskiddy and Haulbowline Island in the Ballincollig-Carrigaline Local Area Plan. Would prefer if the islands were part of our Municipal District and that the special relationship between Cobh and Haulbowline Island were mentioned in the Cobh Local Area Plan.
MDO: The delineation was made by the Boundary Commission. We cannot change that. If we could, there would be other delineations we would change too.
Cllr D’Alton: Noted. But when the Boundary Commission makes new recommendations, as it surely will, believes that we should seek to have Haulbowline and Rocky Islands designated to the Ballincollig-Carrigaline Municipal District.
Cllr E Jeffers
- “That Hollyville, Grange would be included for footpath repairs in the next program.”
- “That the engineer would consult with the residents of Palmbury Orchard, Togher to provide extra residential parking within the estate.”
- “That the engineer would look at the possibility of improving visibility at the junction of Cooney’s Lane and Elm Hill.”
Cllr Jeffers is happy with the written responses to all of his motions.
Cllr MR Desmond
1. “That this Municipal District would request that as part of the agreed works with the developer prior to taking in charge or out of the bond received by council that at least one if not two pedestrian crossings would be provided in Mount Ovel village to allow safe access to the square in Mount Oval. And that the Municipal District receive an update on the current status with taking in charge of this estate.”
Cllr Desmond: Has been working on this for nearly 12 months. Put it down as a motion because progress is so slow that people didn’t believe she was working on it. Stood with an elderly gentleman in Mount Oval while he was trying to cross the road. It took 15 minutes before he could safely get across. There is a difference of opinion between the developer and the Council. There are 800 houses in Mount Oval. There is a huge issue for children trying to access the shop area. Accepts there is no planning for a crossing but what are we going to do for the residents? They really need two crossings but even if we had one … A child will be killed there. An older person can evaluate the risk but a child cannot.
Cllr McGrath (FF): This issue has been raised with many of us over the years. Serious issue. Very busy road. Glad to see it in black and white about the position with the taking in charge of the road. Understands the developer is engaging with the Council.
Cllr D’Alton: Has had this issue raised also. Supports.
Cllr Forde (FG): Would like to see a report on where this taking in charge is at.
MDO: Will ask the Planning Department for a report on the taking in charge and an estimated time frame.
Cllr Desmond: We can’t leave this on the never never. Doesn’t want a one-line report back like this that has been given. The developer believes the road has been taken in charge and the Council says it is not. Nobody can find the paperwork to prove that it has been.
2. “That children at play and reduce speed signs be placed in Kiltegan Park.”
Cllr Desmond is happy with the written response.
3. “That this Municipal District write to Minister Simon Covney requesting assurance that the resources and funding required by the Cork Lower Harbour Main Drainage project team to allow for them proceed with the alternative site for the ESB substation as part of the project in Monkstown.”
Cllr Desmond: Is not happy with this response. Is just asking that the Municipal District will support the premis of the move and is asking that the Minister would have that support across his desk.
Cllr D’Alton: Irish Water proposed to put a substation for the proposed pumping station in the Bosun car park. The location was chosen without consultation and blocks the view of the sea both from the village and the greenway. The residents have requested that it would be moved to a site in the Cut n Cover. Irish Water has done a feasibility study on it, it is technically possible. All that remains now is the funding for the move. This is what the residents want and it is aesthetically best for Monkstown. Supports the motion.
Cllr McGrath: This will ultimately be a cost issue. Supports writing to the Minister. There are no technical issues that will cause a difficulty.
Cllr S McGrath
1. “That this Committee would contact Bus Eireann requesting that a bus service to Carrigaline from Passage West, Monkstown, Shanbally & Ringaskiddy be considered as a matter of priority.”
Cllr McGrath (FF): This issue has been raised before. There should be a bus link to Carrigaline from Passage West. The social welfare office amongst other services is in Carrigaline. There is a good bus service between Passage West – Monkstown – Ringaksiddy – Shanbally but it doesn’t get to Carrigaline.
MDO: We had Martin Walsh here before but it was some time ago.
Cllr McGrath proposes we write and invite him. Wants this issue to be included for discussion.
Cllr Murphy (SF): Supports the motion. Had a motion in at the full Council about coming back to us with a monthly report. He should be coming into us to liaise with us.
Cllr D’Alton: Had submitted this same request for Martin Walsh at his first meeting with us. His response was that the demand is not there. How do we overcome a repeat of the same response?
Cllr Forde says there is a review of the buses going on. Might be good to meet with him before the review is finalised.
Martin Walsh will be asked to attend the January meeting. Members are to submit questions for Martin Walsh to the MDO by the end of the week.
2. “To seek a report from the Engineer in relation to the proposed plan for salting / treating roads over the Christmas period.”
Cllr McGrath: Where do we go with calls in adverse weather conditions over the holidays? Texted the area engineer over a weekend but did not receive any response. Not happy with the answer that has been given. There will be areas stranded if there is cold weather. Church Hill in Passage West is one, Church Hill in Carrigaline is another.
AC, Area Office: We have come up with a contingency plan in the area office should weather conditions deteriorate over the Christmas. We will engage our local crew and will have them briefed on salting well-used routes, not just priority 1 and 2 routes. Use the existing emergency line and we’ll have someone lined up to do salting insofar as possible.
Cllr Canty: We have 3 salt areas – in North Cork, in B’collig and West Cork. So there is never one too far away. Will get us circulated with the call centre number.
Cllr McGrath: This system hasn’t worked in the past. We need feedback. People ask us when the salt is going to be put down.
AC will take this concern back to the area office.
3. “That the footpath from Coolmore Gardens & Coolmore Close in Shanbally to the Village be upgraded as soon as possible. “
Cllr McGrath: This footpath is badly needed. Understands what the report says.
AC: There is no point in doing it yet before the Irish Water work is done.
5. Votes of Congratulations
6. Any Other Business
MDO: Instead of spending the parking dividend piecemeal, suggests that we save it up to create a fund so that we can pay for removal of the overhead services along Douglas West. This is a really good proposal. Funding it will always be an issue. With this proposal we can overcome that.
Anne: €250k are the estimated costs at this stage.
Cllr Forde appreciates this innovative discussion.
Cllr Forde: Speed ramps in Avondale in Passage West. Who paid for these? They are needed in Avondale as well as Avondale Mews.
AC: The local residents came up with 25% of the funding. If the Avondale residents come to the Area Office requesting the same, we will talk to them.
Cllr Desmond: Asks for all responses to be paperless.
MDO: Hopes to go this way.
Cllr D’Alton: At the end of last year, we were promised quarterly derelict sites reports. But we have had only one this year – around April.
Anne: We’re only at the beginning stages of figuring out how we can deliver the services best. We want each Municipal District to develop expertise in certain areas. One will have expertise in derelict sites. Another will, for example, have expertise in parking fines. We haven’t the resources to develop this expertise in each Municipal District so we will have to optimise insofar as we can.
Cllr D’Alton thinks this is a very good idea but wonders how it will affect our requests for a site to be regarded as derelict. Anne clarifies that it won’t.
Cllr D’Alton: Have asked in every way possible about locks being replaced on bins. There is one in particular that is a concern between Glenbrook and Monkstown. It is swinging onto the path.
AC: Will put in the lock.
Cllr Harris: Re Avondale, the speed ramps were put into one part of the estate which left the other part of the estate with nothing and traffic speeds up when it comes to the other part of the estate. So the more affluent part of the estate gets speed ramps and the other part doesn’t get anything.
Cllr D’Alton: There is no more affluent part of the estate. One part of the estate is older than the other and there are two residents associations. One residents association in the newer part of the estate where a crèche is situated wanted ramps to slow down cars collecting from the crèche. They part paid for them themselves. The same will be offered to the other part of the estate. Have already advised them of this. That one part of the estate got ramps has nothing to do with affluence, merely to do with the fact that one part is newer than the other and so there are two residents associations.
Cllr Forde: Douglas GAA had done Trojan work in developing a training ground. The Council had given them an amenity grant. They were short €350. Can we find them the extra €350?
MDO: The GAA Club said the work was done. They said this in a letter when they were returning the invoices in August. We paid out. We can only pay 50% in accordance with the scheme. Then the Club came in December and said something quite different. They were granted another grant in 2016. We can’t give them the extra €350.
Cllr McGrath: The lights in Church Road haven’t been turned on. We’re waiting on the ESB. They have been paid. This is the 2016 public lighting programme and the lights still haven’t been switched on. It takes so long to work through the scheme. We tell the public that we’re going to get public lighting and we’re half way through the winter and there are still no lights. We are the paying customer and should be following up with the ESB why they are not doing their part of the job.
AC: It is the ESB that is the problem. We will reinforce your concerns to them.
Cllr Harris: On Shamrock Road it is very dark. Was a bad accident there a few weeks ago. A car overturned.
AC: Will talk to the public lighting engineer.
Cllr Canty: Happy Christmas and a prosperous New Year to everyone.
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